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November 27, 2021, 04:11:27 am

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:goonpatriot: :goonpatriot: :goonpatriot: CYBERNATIONS IS OVER, IT IS TIME TO RUIN POLITICS AND WAR  :goonpatriot: :goonpatriot: :goonpatriot:
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Offline Destroyer Goon

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Offline CriminallyStylish

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Re: Does it make anyone else happy...
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2014, 04:48:43 am »
Pat Bateman, that is a graph essentially measuring social mobility. Social mobility is an individuals theoretical ability to climb the social ladder and go from earning less or from a family earning less to earning a higher salary - or the core of the "american dream" if you will. Part of this is the ability to start businesses, yes - this helps one climb the ladder and along with marriages or inheritance this is certainly included in the data. If you pay attention to it you will see that countries with pretty broad social security-nets and a strong regulatory state such as Canada, Germany and the Scandinavian countries score very well, while USA scores in par with Singapore and China on inequality, and Pakistan, Switzerland, UK, and Italy on immobility.

This map measures economic inequality - note countries scoring badly in red and better in blue;


Offline CriminallyStylish

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Re: Does it make anyone else happy...
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2014, 05:01:25 am »
Quote
I don't know what that graph means, but it's just the principle that you should be able to do what you want with your business and the government shouldn't be telling you what you have to believe or tell you how to run it.
Not understanding something is fine, but then you shouldn't make up an opinion of it based on ideological vitriol.

The principle that you should be able to do what you wan't with your business stops where these regulations start, these exist for a variety of reasons, f.ex to stop your business from using lead when painting children's toys to save money. Case in point here would be China, which did this not too long ago. The problem is that any time you stamp down your foot and set yourself a "principle" that is indisputable to you and that you will not back down upon, you destroy any chance of reasonable debate. I think if you simply look into this issue it will not be as simple as you are trying to make out.

Offline Pat Bateman

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Re: Does it make anyone else happy...
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2014, 08:20:36 am »
Quote
I don't know what that graph means, but it's just the principle that you should be able to do what you want with your business and the government shouldn't be telling you what you have to believe or tell you how to run it.
Not understanding something is fine, but then you shouldn't make up an opinion of it based on ideological vitriol.

The principle that you should be able to do what you wan't with your business stops where these regulations start, these exist for a variety of reasons, f.ex to stop your business from using lead when painting children's toys to save money. Case in point here would be China, which did this not too long ago. The problem is that any time you stamp down your foot and set yourself a "principle" that is indisputable to you and that you will not back down upon, you destroy any chance of reasonable debate. I think if you simply look into this issue it will not be as simple as you are trying to make out.

I guess that read a little more dramatic than I intended.  I was genuinely not understanding the graph.  Thanks for the clarification.  There's nothing wrong with setting principles and following them.  It doesn't completely destroy debate unless you follow the principles to the absolute extreme (tea party shitlords). 

I've always been of the opinion that the government shouldn't be up your ass on everything.  They should be involved as little as possible,  that doesn't mean they shouldn't exist at all.  We do need some regulations on business, as I said earlier.  Your lead paint argument was a good example, or child labor laws, or laws regarding working conditions.   I have no issues with that.  But you see the huge leap from that to saying "you have to have 'x' amount of blacks, 'x' amount of whites, 'x amount of hispanics", or forcing them to pay for employees contraceptives,  ect.  Now it's overkill.  Now they're getting way too involved. 

 

Offline Destroyer Goon

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Re: Does it make anyone else happy...
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2014, 08:32:11 am »
funny how people said every single one of your "okay" regulations were overkill before they were implemented. actually, some still do

funny how you'll look at graphs / maps that shows America's extreme inequality as well as its citizens inability to improve their situations compared to the rest of the world, and you decry that poor plucky businesses have it too tough
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Offline CriminallyStylish

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Re: Does it make anyone else happy...
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2014, 08:34:24 am »
You mention affirmative action, which is a pretty bad example because it is heavily debated even within very left-leaning political circles. In Norway we have had socialists in government now for 8 years. I am a member of the Labor-party, which is the biggest political party in Norway and they are adhering to the ideology of social democracy. In Norway they are regarded as a left-center party but in USA they would probably be labeled communists or something. Even withing this party affirmative action although implemented was heavily debated with a sizable portion against. I am personally unsure, but I think it is arguably positive in some cases.

The whole debate on companies paying for contraceptives/abortions or whatever is retarded because that should be paid by the state through taxes.

Offline Pat Bateman

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Re: Does it make anyone else happy...
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2014, 08:42:17 am »
funny how people said every single one of your "okay" regulations were overkill before they were implemented. actually, some still do

funny how you'll look at graphs / maps that shows America's extreme inequality as well as its citizens inability to improve their situations compared to the rest of the world, and you decry that poor plucky businesses have it too tough

My argument was never about the "poor" businesses or being too hard on business.  It's that the government is way too involved in shit they have no business involving themself in.

 

Offline Destroyer Goon

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Re: Does it make anyone else happy...
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2014, 08:43:19 am »
the problem with saying how even some leftists don't really like affirmative action is that, like historical populists and today's libertarians, they tend range from really fucking racist to, at best, naive

In America, at least, "affirmative action" type policies are the only things that have been shown to make any improvement to people-of-color, who have been overtly systematically oppressed and still suffer ripples from that oppression. Including in (gasp) business/employment. "Color-blind" policies have shown to benefit whites more than non-whites. Again.
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Offline Destroyer Goon

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Re: Does it make anyone else happy...
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2014, 08:43:49 am »
funny how people said every single one of your "okay" regulations were overkill before they were implemented. actually, some still do

funny how you'll look at graphs / maps that shows America's extreme inequality as well as its citizens inability to improve their situations compared to the rest of the world, and you decry that poor plucky businesses have it too tough

My argument was never about the "poor" businesses or being too hard on business.  It's that the government is way too involved in shit they have no business involving themself in.

the US government is explicitly set up to protect the general welfare. granted it does a really shitty job of that, but we're talking bout supposed-tos here
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Offline Pat Bateman

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Re: Does it make anyone else happy...
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2014, 08:44:17 am »

The whole debate on companies paying for contraceptives/abortions or whatever is retarded because that should be paid by the state through taxes.

Well there you go.  If you want the people to have contraceptives give it to them,  but don't use private businesses as your vessel to give it to them with THEIR money.

 

Offline Pat Bateman

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Re: Does it make anyone else happy...
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2014, 08:45:01 am »
funny how people said every single one of your "okay" regulations were overkill before they were implemented. actually, some still do

funny how you'll look at graphs / maps that shows America's extreme inequality as well as its citizens inability to improve their situations compared to the rest of the world, and you decry that poor plucky businesses have it too tough

My argument was never about the "poor" businesses or being too hard on business.  It's that the government is way too involved in shit they have no business involving themself in.

the US government is explicitly set up to protect the general welfare

Forcing business to buy contraceptives is going beyond that.

 

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Re: Does it make anyone else happy...
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2014, 08:46:15 am »
i disagree, goon sir
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Offline CriminallyStylish

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Re: Does it make anyone else happy...
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2014, 08:48:25 am »

The whole debate on companies paying for contraceptives/abortions or whatever is retarded because that should be paid by the state through taxes.

Well there you go.  If you want the people to have contraceptives give it to them,  but don't use private businesses as your vessel to give it to them with THEIR money.
Yeah but that money has to come from somewhere, so you have to have higher taxes on rich people which have been mooching off your state for far too long. Just implementing Herman Cain's "9 9 9"-plan, reducing federal income by 50% and watching the country go bankrupt and break down into riots and looting will not help anyone.

Offline CriminallyStylish

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Re: Does it make anyone else happy...
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2014, 08:49:27 am »
Herman Cain is a fucking hilarious guy BTW. Wish he won the republican candidates nomination because holy hell the dude is a goldmine

Offline Destroyer Goon

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Re: Does it make anyone else happy...
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2014, 08:50:50 am »
Herman Cain was a performance artist
:hehe: sigs off crew :hehe:


GOONS is a powerful and respected AA

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